by Br. Alexis Bugnolo

LifeSiteNews, ever the unreliable site for the Scamdemic and the Papacies of Benedict XVI and now Francis, ran a story making wild claims and interpretations of the recent statement by Pope Francis on Hell.

Here is that article:

Here is the actual interview, in Spanish:

Here is the text in question, specifically:

¿Cuál es su propia interpretación del infierno y del paraíso? ¿Y qué les pasa a las personas que van al infierno y qué a las que van al paraíso? 

—El infierno no es un lugar, si uno va a asistir al Juicio final, y ve las caras de los que van al infierno, se asusta. Si uno lee a Dante, se asusta. Pero son representaciones mediáticas. El infierno es un estado, hay gente que vive en un infierno continuamente. Esto no lo digo por la gente que sufre, el pueblo que sufre, sino por aquellos que se hacen un mundo de autorreferencialidad mal o enfermizo, y terminan viviendo en un infierno. El infierno es un estado, es un estado del corazón, del alma, de una postura frente a la vida, a los valores, a la familia, a todo. Hay gente que vive en un infierno porque se lo busca, hay otros que no, que son sufridos. ¿Y quién va al infierno, a ese infierno, a ese estado? Ya se va viviendo desde aquí. Si usted me pregunta cuánta gente hay en el infierno, yo le contesto con una escultura famosa de la catedral de Deslé, no sé si del siglo XI o siglo IX, sur de Francia, hay un capitel famoso, las columnas tienen capiteles, que era un modo de catequizar en aquella época a través de la pintura y la escultura. Y el capitel ese tiene a Judas ahorcado y el diablo tirando para abajo, y del otro lado tienen al Buen Pastor, a Jesús que agarra a Judas y se lo lleva a babucha con una sonrisa irónica. ¿Qué quiere decir eso? Que la salvación es más fuerte que la condenación. Ese capitel es una catequesis que nos tiene que hacer pensar. La misericordia de Dios está siempre a nuestro lado, y lo que Dios quiere es siempre estar con su gente, con sus hijos y no que se le vayan.

Here is a google translation of that:

What is your own interpretation of hell and paradise? And what happens to people who go to hell and what happens to those who go to heaven?

—Hell is not a place, if one goes to attend the Final Judgment, and sees the faces of those who go to hell, he is scared. If you read Dante, he gets scared. But they are media representations. Hell is a state, there are people who live in hell continuously. I am not saying this for the people who suffer, the people who suffer, but for those who make a world of self-referentiality bad or sick, and end up living in hell. Hell is a state, it is a state of the heart, of the soul, of a position towards life, towards values, towards family, towards everything. There are people who live in hell because they ask for it, there are others who don’t, who suffer. And who goes to hell, to that hell, to that state? It is already living from here. If you ask me how many people there are in hell, I answer you with a famous sculpture from Deslé cathedral, I don’t know if it’s from the 11th century or the 9th century, southern France, there is a famous capital, the columns have capitals, which was a way of catechizing at that time through painting and sculpture. And that capital has Judas hanged and the devil pulling down, and on the other side they have the Good Shepherd, Jesus who grabs Judas and takes him away with an ironic smile. What does that mean? That salvation is stronger than damnation. That capital is a catechesis that has to make us think. God’s mercy is always by our side, and what God wants is to always be with his people, with his children and not for them to leave him.

COMMENTARY

The first thing to notice is the historical context. Pope Francis is not teaching, but giving an interview. Second, he is asked to give his personal interpretation, not a statement of faith. This is important. And that is why he refers to a work of art, since art is always an interpretation, at least when it regards things which are not seen or cannot be seen.

Second, one has to have a precise notion of what one is talking about. In Catholic teaching Hell is a term used for 2 things, properly speaking: the spiritual state into which Angels and souls are placed for punishment after their personal judgement, which for Angels occurs the moment after they decided against God at the beginning of their creation, and for men, after death; and the place and state of souls and spirits, after the Final Judgement, which in Scripture is called the Pit of Fire, where, according to the Apostle St. John, even Hell will be cast on the Last Day (cf. Rev. 20:4).

Now, since places hold bodies, and there are and shall never be bodies in the first Hell, as is obvious, because they are on Earth, there are those who say that the first Hell is not a place. I use Hell in the wider sense that comprises both Hells, and so would not speak in this way, but I recognize that I am using “Hell” in the common parlance, not in the precise scriptural terminology.

So to say that the former Hell is not a place, but a state of soul, is perfectly Catholic and speaks precisely, even though, Catholics speaking commonly, speak imprecisely and conflate both Hells into one place and one state.  This is a common error especially after the 14th century, when preachers stopped speaking of the Catholic doctrine which says that the Angels fell to earth, not into Hell, and that they are punished here on Earth, and at times, in Hell, as all exorcists know.

Third, the Society of Jesus emphasizes, in its theology and spirituality, the spiritual battle, of which St. Ignatius speaks in his Spiritual Exercises. So when speaking of these things, Pope Francis gives an interpretation which is entirely withing that framework.

Only someone ignorant of history, theology, and St. Ignatius of Loyola would find heresy or scandal in what the Pope has said.  But that is LifeSite News.